Curse

Makkert · Jun 29, 2005, 01:59 PM // 13:59

I haven't played a necro, so i just don't know and am clueless.

but the primaryr attribute of a necro gives you energy when someone dies right?

how usefull is this? it seems conditional, while other professions can directly benefit from their primary attribute.
are the skills linked to it very good?

i'm only interested in pvp side here. 4v4 and tombs.

Elena · Jun 29, 2005, 02:04 PM // 14:04

i think its meant to be used in conjuction with a bone minion build so each time a minion dies u get more energy i personally find this attribute most benefical in pve to keep up energy

Ogg · Jun 29, 2005, 02:13 PM // 14:13

In pvp, it's not that great, as it requires for someone/thing to die for you to get energy. If it's someone on other team, your team is already winning, and it will only make the match shorter. If it is someone on your team who you are reaping... Well, then you've basically lost already.

And there are no skills linked to it.

In pve, it is useful, as with a good team you won't run out of energy, no matter how much you use skills.

Minions are good energysource, with decent soul reaping. But they require a corpse, which leads back to start.

Against spiritspammers, or with some, it works, as each time spirit dies, you'll get energy.

silvertemplar · Jun 29, 2005, 03:31 PM // 15:31

I've found it pretty much "crappy". Nevermind the PvP issues. In PvE a very large portion of the game you will struggle to find a corpse. So now you get this nice vicious circle :

1. Need corpses to cast anything decent [especially to raise minions]
2. No corpses = Not using energy [unless you go into blood-magic and run around sacrificing all your HP = suicide without a decent monk]
3. So when something do die, and do leave a corpse, you probably didnt need the energy anyway [because only when the thing died can you actually cast something :P]

Someone on the forums suggested Soul-Reaping change from "a set amount of energy gained" to "+energy regen for a set amount of time" ....now that would be something worthwhile. [if it is indeed giving you energy regen, then i guess i'm mistaken, last i checked i believe you just get x energy "instantly"]

In the end, i'm certain you will be more effective energy-wise simply being Elem prime [energy storage] and then being Necro secondary....

Chev of Hardass · Jun 29, 2005, 04:26 PM // 16:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by silvertemplar

unless you go into blood-magic and run around sacrificing all your HP = suicide without a decent monk]

Be careful when you speak. You may show your ignorance.

If you look at the rest of the blood magic line, you will see life stealing skills. Those go in conjunction with life sacrificing skills.

Back to the origional topic, yes soul reaping is helful in PvE, and in PvP, since deaths are more common than anyone wants to believe. However, having energy storage is FAR more helpful, as would be fastcasting, or Divine favor. The real looser is a necro in PvE that gains all sorts of energy at the end of the battle and is ready to go on, but is fighting next to a Ele that has just used all thier energy and has to regen. Lots of good that soul reaping did there.

So, the end result, a Necro primary build is only useful if you are planning on having 16 in some Necro skill. Then, it is still questionable, because I have seen that necro skills do not seem to improve dramatically over 12 in the blood magic line, raising minions is nicer at higher levels, however.

Makkert · Jun 29, 2005, 06:56 PM // 18:56

well, i got some insights from a r/w, me/n and a w/mo.

does any primary necro want to take up the gloves and defend their primary attribute?

LadyCallipyge · Jun 29, 2005, 07:02 PM // 19:02

I love the Soul Reaping part of my Necro. She was necro/ele for most of the game....but here in late game I have changed her secondary to monk (just because rebirth is so darned useful in these last few missions). The soul reaping does keep her in good energy most of the time. She is having less issues about running out of it than my E/Me (who ran out all the time). Of course, there are times when she does run out.

My SR is at 9, and blood and death are at 12 each. Still need to get the last 15 attribute points and consider using a major rune.

I find using putrid explosion is not only fun but makes my reaping very handy.

EF2NYD · Jun 29, 2005, 07:10 PM // 19:10

Sometimes Soul Reaping gives me too much energy. It just depends on the situation you find yourself in.

Shadow_Avenger · Jun 29, 2005, 07:24 PM // 19:24

It is very good in PvE, not particually useful in PvP compared to other classes.
All they need to do sort out the degen on minions the it would be a good class, and more useful as minions are not only poor fighters, (max lvl 17, which means any decent lvl 20 player or creature actually does like 180% damage on them so they die fairly easily, but they are a good destraction.) but as energy storage, (which with soul reaping they are) they are also poor due to the fact they ofen die before you reach you next battle which is pointless, as you want them to die when you actually need energy not when you energy is full. Going off topic. srry, but as with all classes skills and attrib are interlinked.
In PvP primary necro is a poor choice, simple as that. Soul reaping in PvP in theory is just as good as any other class primary attrib, but, as an example a mesmer (the advanced class) beats a necro hands down in PvP, for both killing others, usefulness and simplicity of play. Some may play necro and kick serious but, for average joe this is simply not the case. Necro are very good in PvE, average in 90% of cases in PvP, where other classes actually outshine them.

Necro have some awesome curses, they work a treat in PvE, but not the case in PvP, the AoE curses are fairly useless, the health degen skills pale incomparison to rangers poison, warriors bleed, mesmers phantasm. Mesmers hex's are as good if not better than a necro's curses, but you don't sacrifice blood. The only plus side is they have minions, and a high death magic build can create lvl 17 fiends which are apain in the rear, but then necromancer is not the class that can pull a battle back from the brink. (It's not impossible, but not as likely as with other classes)

'Flame on'

silvertemplar · Jun 29, 2005, 07:37 PM // 19:37

Quote:

Be careful when you speak. You may show your ignorance.

If you look at the rest of the blood magic line, you will see life stealing skills. Those go in conjunction with life sacrificing skills.

Indeed, but ive found THEN i never have the energy to do a "sacrifice+leech" combo properly :P Corpses just didn't drop that fast.

Anyway, the sad part is, and that is why i think there is some sort of imbalance here, that a secondary necro on Mo,Elem,Mes with all the points placed into said class' primary attribs and ONLY necro attribs, will probably easily beat a primary necro with all their points in their necro attrib + ONLY necro skills. This really should not be possible :P Unless they -want- Necro to be a truly support class only.

Either way, my Mes/Necro in PvE got everything in Fast Casting + Death Magic/Blood Magic , and it is just scary how fast i'm throwing things like Deathly Swarm and Summoning Minions [with FC, i actually feel more comfortable summoning minions IN battle instead of BEFORE/AFTER battles]
I can't imagine a prime necro will be able to keep up with that.

JPong · Jun 29, 2005, 07:39 PM // 19:39

I think soul reaping is usefull even though I don't tend to play my necro. And there has been a few things I have wanted to try in the Tombs and HoH. Can you imagine 8 necros running around-7 life stealers, 1 summoner/life stealing. Sounds pretty deadly if they can focus.

Teufel Eldritch · Jun 29, 2005, 07:56 PM // 19:56

It's usefull I will say that. However as a primary attribute I think it's somewhat weak compared to other professions attributes.

salja Wachi · Jun 29, 2005, 07:59 PM // 19:59

OK from a Necro that has over a million exp on his character.

There are many advantages to being a necro and it is a very fun character to play, also if played right one of the most deadly.

forget the primary attribute we get. it is not really helpful most of the time.

it is the blood/curse line that does the most damage to the enemy team.

from life stealing skills to enchantment take downs, to powerful heals and energy regens, to enemy heal prevention, the Necro has so many things it can do that in the right hands it maybe the most dangerous character in the game. (maybe a little bias)

anyway after playing tombs the last couple days it seems as if the Koreans have changed strategies a bit to start killing necros first rather than monks or mesmers in PvP.

not sure if that means much or not maybe they are just trying something new, but it could mean they have learned a good necro kicks ass as well

Chev of Hardass · Jun 29, 2005, 08:05 PM // 20:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Makkert

well, i got some insights from a r/w, me/n and a w/mo.

does any primary necro want to take up the gloves and defend their primary attribute?

Hmm, yes that is what this post is about. Who is tougher? I can build you a Necro Primary that can tear apart a single target and leave the battle with full health. But, that is no good to a team. I build characters that are good for a team. This is Guild Wars.

BTW my single target destroyer build has a 1 in soul reaping from my minor Rune. So, your theoretical "put your Primary attribute point to the test" theory is out. Besides, do you want to go one-on-one? Soul reaping sounds like the dumbest thing to put attribute points into.

Quote:

Originally Posted by silvertemplar

Indeed, but ive found THEN i never have the energy to do a "sacrifice+leech" combo properly :P Corpses just didn't drop that fast.

Anyway, the sad part is, and that is why i think there is some sort of imbalance here, that a secondary necro on Mo,Elem,Mes with all the points placed into said class' primary attribs and ONLY necro attribs, will probably easily beat a primary necro with all their points in their necro attrib + ONLY necro skills. This really should not be possible :P Unless they -want- Necro to be a truly support class only.

I built a Warrior destroying Ele/N. Warriors are dumb and stan still often enough. Earch magic+Life Transfer+Vampiric touch+Vampiric Gaze+life siphon=full health after yout target goes down. Doesn't really work to it's full effect on monks, since they tend to run around in Arenas and I would not bring a non-team build to the Tombs.

Chev of Hardass · Jun 29, 2005, 08:14 PM // 20:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by salja Wachi

not sure if that means much or not maybe they are just trying something new, but it could mean they have learned a good necro kicks ass as well

Ha, yes I saw this a couple of weeks ago. Teams actually do target Necros first!!! Made me happy to get wiped out so quickly. Just for the reconition.

Zeru · Jun 29, 2005, 08:14 PM // 20:14

SR is really only good pvp for very specific builds like a BiP or OOV spammer because it keeps energy up very well.

Necro is a pretty shallow pvp line. Yeah, there are ocassional uses for for stuff mentioned above and there are a few good curse skills; stuff like putrid explosion can be used in certain circumstances but not generally.

Really the only all around good necro spell is rend enchantments, and thats because it's a must-have for pretty much any team to carry.

Epinephrine · Jun 29, 2005, 08:14 PM // 20:14

I'll say that there are four reasons to go primary necro with a caster secondary - I don't think it's a fair question when asked with a noncaster primary as the decision is then based more on two factors - energy and armour:

Runes
Armour
Soul Reaping
Targetting

Of these -

Runes: Do you need many points in your necro lines? If so, primary is good. If you are using 2-3 lines of necro abilities and don't need as much power in your secondary this is a good reason to be primary necro.

Armour: Are the necro armours useful to you? Do you expect to be facing arrows (piercing) or not much holy damage, or are scars worthwhile?

Soul Reaping: In PvE I love this ability. In PvP is it better than your other caster primary? Are you planning a team build that can take advantage of Soul Reaping?

Targetting: Are you more or less likely to be targetted as a necromancer? Mesmers for example are on many people's kill list ATM - but a Nec/Mesmer can do good interruption anyway, and while you can't have a 16 domination it generally isn't needed - A Power Leak at lvl 12 costs them the cost of their spell and 22 more, at 16 it adds 4 more energy loss - not much difference; Likewise, a backfire is very discouraging to casters - whether its 119 damage or 140, doesn't really matter - either way they are stopping and yelling for hex removal. The 0.25 second interrupts aren't helped much by fast casting, so depending on the style of play you might be better off tactically to choose a Necro primary.

I think that in PvE Soul Reaping is incredible. I think that Soul Reaping in a party built around it is the most powerful primary attribute in the game, capable of delivering more energy to a team than anything else, and thus more of an advantage. I think that there are likely then PvP builds to exploit Soul Reaping that would be incredibly effective, but agree that the limiting death count in most PvP makes it less desirable.

Up to you - I will always view it as one of the most powerful primaries, but one that is misused often and underappreciated, much like the rangers out there who take 6 expertise and complain that it's pointless.

Lazek Phoenix · Jun 29, 2005, 08:23 PM // 20:23

ok being a primary necro is very important in pvp. First of all the most important skill for a death necro in pvp is putrid explosion. See if you have 10+ soul reaping when someone diesit makes the putrid free to cast. Considering in alter situations and when groups are packed together a necro can kill an entire team with putrid and the only way to be able to continously putrid is soulreaping. for the hall of heroes in the very last min putrid is one of the most important skills to take down the alter.

Soul reaping is also usfull since as much people don't want to admit it people die A LOT in pvp matches they are just rezed quickly which makes it seem like not a lot of people are dieing. Also there are a lot of necor skills that cost a very high amount of mana and soul reaping helps to keep your mana up.

Makkert · Jun 29, 2005, 08:24 PM // 20:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epinephrine

Up to you - I will always view it as one of the most powerful primaries, but one that is misused often and underappreciated, much like the rangers out there who take 6 expertise and complain that it's pointless.

lol. yeah, that is what made me start this topic. i'm a ranger, and having high expertise is essential. i just can't think of a ranger without high expertise.
but the trend of this thread seems the opposite for a necro:
their primarary seems not really that essential in pvp

goldfinger · Jun 29, 2005, 08:49 PM // 20:49

I would take fast casting or energy storage long before I took soul reaping.